Ancient India: Particles physics and cosmology
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread111071/pg7
To discuss particle physics in ancient texts thousands of years ago. Is certainly not something one would expect in discussing a 7000+ year old culture. How many religious texts are there that discuss particle physics? None. Zilch. Nada. However, in the Indian texts, it is described very elaborately, even beyond sub-atomic particles to superstring theory. A lot of what will be discussed is beyond modern science.
Summary of the Vedic universe
1. There are infinite dimensions and they interpeneterate
2. The material universe is comprised of 5 main elements(mahabhuttas); tejas(fire) earth(pritvhi), vayu(wind), apas(fluid) and (ether) They are all comprised of atoms, and the atoms of sub-atomic particles. However, only fire, earth, wind and fluid are physical and can be divided. The ether is the spiritual/subtle element, and is comprised of 5 ether elements of fire, earth, wind and fluid and each comprised of subtle atoms.
4. There is an attractive and repulsive force in all atoms; force is wind.
5. All matter is nothing more than a vibration and different vibrations form different matter.
6. The universe is holographic
7. Time is an endless cycle of creation and destruction; the universe is forever oscillating
8. The universe is conscious and planets and suns are higher life forms
9. All living beings have a soul and the soul fuses with with the atomic body
10. The science of meditation is the highest science
The Material universe
The Ancient Indians stated the entire macrocosm of the universe is comprised of the micocosms of finer particles. They measured all events and phenomena, from the orbits of planets to the fluctuation of sub-atomic particles as happening in time and time itself was measured according to the suns movement relative to the atom. This was represented by a very advanced numerical system that ranges from 10^-8 to 10^421(Buddha used it) and each power was given a name. This was used some 7000+ years ago!
Here are the Sanskrit words for the numbers up to 10^53
ekam =1
dashakam =10
shatam =100 (10 to the power of 10)
sahasram =1000 (10 power of 3)
dashasahasram =10000 (10 power of 4)
lakshaha =100000 (10 power of 5)
dashalakshaha =1000000 (10 power of 6)
kotihi =10000000 (10 power of 7)
ayutam =1000000000 (10 power of 9)
niyutam = (10 power of 11)
kankaram = (10 power of 13)
vivaram = (10 power of 15)
paraardhaha = (10 power of 17)
nivahaaha = (10 power of 19)
utsangaha = (10 power of 21)
bahulam = (10 power of 23)
naagbaalaha = (10 power of 25)
titilambam = (10 power of 27)
vyavasthaana
pragnaptihi = (10 power of 29)
hetuheelam = (10 power of 31)
karahuhu = (10 power of 33)
hetvindreeyam = (10 power of 35)
samaapta lambhaha = (10 power of 37)
gananaagatihi) = (10 power of 39)
niravadyam = (10 power of 41)
mudraabaalam = (10 power of 43)
sarvabaalam = (10 power of 45)
vishamagnagatihi = (10 power of 47)
sarvagnaha = (10 power of 49)
vibhutangamaa = (10 power of 51)
tallaakshanam = (10 power of 53)
In Ancient India, numbers were not abstract concepts, though used to measure phenomena. One wonders, what were they measuring at 10^53-421! In particular, ancient Vedic Indians were very precise about time and had divided into very fine divisions, according to atoms. In the Srimad Bhagvatam, chaper 11, it is stated these divisions of time are calculated by the time it takes the sun across the smallest and largest dimensions of matter. Those divisions are:
Paramanu = Primodial atom
2 Paramanu = Anu
6 Anu = Trasarenu
3 Trasarenus = Truti
100 Truti = Vedha
3 Veda = Lava
3 Lava = Nimesha
3 Nimesha = Ksana
5 Ksana = Kashta
15 Kashthas = Laghu
15 Laghu = Nadika
2 Nadika = Muhuruta
A Muhutra is defined as 48 min. Therefore a paramanu would be 1.3*10^-6. There were even smaller divisions of time as noted
by a British physicist on BBC of 3*10^-8, who said it was surprisingly close to the life span of a certain fermion.
The time scale continues:
Divasa = 24 hours
Saptaha = 7 days
Masa = 4 weeks
Varsa = 12 months
Satabda = 100 years
Sahasrabda = 10 centuries
Deva yuga = 12,000 deva years or 4.32 million human years
Manvantra(days and nights) = 71 Deva Yugas or 306.72 million years or 613.44 million years(full)
7 Manvantra = 4.3 billion years; the age of the Earth today
1 Kapa(14 Mantravantra) 8.64 billion years; the life span of Earta
100 years of Brahma = 311 trillion years; the life span of our universe
We are currently in the 7th Mantravantra, meaning the age of our Earth according to the Hindu calender was 4.3 billion years old when the human civilization began. In 5AD Indian mathematican calculated the age of the Earth as 4.35 billion years old. The age of the Earth as estimated by scientists today with carbon dating is 4.3-4.5 billion years old. There is absolutely no way that the age of Earth can be calculated without modern scanning(or radiological) equipment and it most definitely not a coincidence as the Hindu time scale is is very precise and has a very scientific structure.
To give you an idea of what an astonishing feat this is, we'll look at other attempts at calculating or estimating the age of the Earth:
Artistotle: Aristotle believed the Earth was eternal
The Han Chinese: The Earth existed in cycle of 23 million years
Comte du Buffon(1799) : He measured the rate of cooling of a globe of an Earth he created. He esimated 75,000 years old.
John Phillips: He calculated the Earth was about 96 million years old from rock analysis
William Thompson(1862): He published calculations that the Earth was 20 million to 400 million years old. His calculations were based
on the assumption of how long it would have taken for the Earth to cool from molten state to it's current temperature.
The German physicist Hermann von Helmholtz and the American astronomer Simon Newcomb: : They calculated the age of the Earth as 100 million years based on the sun.
Bertram and Rutherford: Using early carbon dating equipments, they were able to date many rocks, the oldest rock they dates was 1.6 billion years old. This lead them to believe the Earth was a few billion years old.
So we have an highly accurate age for the Earth and the speed of light. Both of which require modern technology, radiological/scanning and lasers, respectively. At some point we have to give in to the fact that we are not the first technological civilization. The evidence is insurmountable.
Atomic Theory
There are five main elements:
Pritvhi: Atomic elements
Vayu: The forces of attraction and repulsion
Tejas: Electromagnetic energy and photons
Apas: The fluid
Akasha: The vacuum energy
Matter in it's original and unadulerated form is called Prakriti(the female principle) and It's male principle, or the spirit, is called Purush or Prana(the all pervading life force) It comes into existence when the great breath of the parabrahman or the Brahman(creator) acts upon it. This principle is called the Svara and means the current of the life wave. The non-physical universe then divided into 5 states of ether that form the subtle and objective universe, each with their distinct vibration and function.
The first element that forms is the ether, the first and highest level of vibration and then the rest of the ethers form. Then the great breath acts upon these 5 types of ethers, and from them manifest the physical and gross elements which form space-time. The first element of the 3D universe is the ether and then forms the 2nd element, Vayu, the forces of attraction and repulsion, which then shape the the Brahmand(universe and expanding egg) into a primodial sphere or cosmic seed called Hiranya Garbha(seed of all energy) in which the sum of Prakriti in the universe is contained from which bursts in an explosion(Bindu Vishput) the third element of Tejas; electromagnetic energy. The electromagnetic energy expands and forms the fourth element of Pritvhi(atomic matter) and from Pritvhi finally forms the 5th element Apas(fluid) and this completes creation.
All matter in the universe is formed of the five Tattvas, fives modes of vibration of the life force to the finest atom and obey it's physical laws. All of Prana is made up of innumerable points of various classes depending on their state of vibrations of the Tattvas. Every point of Prana is a microcosm of the universe and is comprised of all of the 5 Maha Tatavas in varying proportions and these form the gross atoms - the atomic elements or the tattvas.
The understanding of atomic elements and their practical use was very advanced to the level of the technology of transmutation of one element to another. In the Srimad Bhagvatam an analogy is given by Srila Sanatana Gosvami, in which the transformation of a lowborn man into a brahmin is compared to the transformation of bell metal into gold by an alchemical process. Bell metal is an ancient alloy that is comprised of two metals, copper and tin. The atomic numbers of copper and tin are 29 and 50 respectively, combined they give the atomic number of 79, which IS the element Gold.
Is it a coincidence? Hardly, it specifies explicitly that it is formed from an alchemical process using bells metal.
Quotations from the Bhagvad Gita, Vedas Unpanishads discussing the above
Those who have taken refuge in this knowledge attain unity with Me, and are neither born at the time of creation nor afflicted at the time of dissolution. (14.02)
O Arjuna, My Prakriti (or the material nature) is the womb wherein I place the seed (of spirit or Purusha) from which all beings are born. (See also 9.10) (14.03)
Whatever forms are produced in all different wombs, O Arjuna, the great Prakriti is their (body-giving) mother, and the Purusha is the (seed or life-giving) father. (14.04)
Sattva or goodness, Rajas or activity, and Tamas or inertia; these three Gunas (or states) of mind (or Prakriti) bind the imperishable soul to the body, O Arjuna. (14.05)
My dear Lord, the original purusha-avatara, Maha-Vishnu, acquires His creative potency from You. Thus with infallible energy He impregnates material nature, producing the mahat-tattva. Then the mahat-tattva, the amalgamated material energy, endowed with the potency of the Lord, produces from itself the primeval golden egg of the universe, which is covered by various layers of material elements
The state of each universe at the beginning is described in Rig Veda (10-121-1) and Atharva Veda (4-2-7) by the words 'Hiranya Garbha', literally meaning 'the seed or womb of all energy'. The Hindu scriptures offer many ideas about creation, but they all agree that each universe is ultimately dissolved and transformed into another one. This transformation point is the 'Big Bang' (known as Bindu Visphot) which happens periodically and thus sets the process of endless rhythmic cycles of expansions and contractions ('Big Crunch') of the universe. In this process, time is also initiated as part of that continuum.
The universe turns into minute (subtle) form at the time of dissolution and takes gross form at the time of creation.(Gita, 9-7)
There was a universe before this one and there will be a, universe after this one. (Rig veda, 10-190-3)
The Shiva Purna:
1. The goddess said: My Lord Mahadeva, the god of gods, be kind to me, and tell me the wisdom that comprehends everything.
2. How did the universe come out? How does it go on? How does it disappear? Tell me, O Lord, the philosophy of the universe.
3. Said the god: The universe came out of tatwa or the tatwas; it goes on by the instrumentality of the tatwas; it disappears in the tatwas; by the tatwas is known the nature of the universe.
4. Said the goddess: The Knowers of the tatwas have ascertained the tatwa to be the highest root; what, O God, is the nature of the tatwas? Throw light upon the tatwas.
5. Said the god: Unmanifested, formless, one giver of light is the great Power; from that appeared the soniferous ether (akasa); from that had birth the tangiferous ether.
6. From the tangiferous ether, the luminiferous ether, and from this the gustiferous ether; from thence was the birth of the odiferous ether. These are the five ethers and they have five-fold extension.
7. Of these the universe came out; by these it goes on; into these it disappears; even among these it shows itself again
8. The body is made of the five tatwas; the five tatwas, O Fair One, exist therein in the subtle form; they are known by the learned who devote themselves to the tatwas.
9. On this account shall I speak of the rise of breath in the body; by knowing the nature of inspiration and expiration comes into being the knowledge of the three times.
10. This science of the rise of breath, the hidden of the hidden, the shower of the true Good, is a pearl on the head of the wise.
11. This knowledge is the subtle of the subtle; it is easily understood; it causes the belief of truth; it excites wonder in the world of unbelievers; it is the support among unskeptical people.
12. The science of the rise of breath is to be given to the calm, the pure, the virtuous, the firm and the grateful, single-minded devote of the guru.
13. It is not to be given to the vicious, the impure, the angry, the untruthful, the adulterer, and him who has wasted his substance.
14. Hear, thou goddess, the wisdom which is found in the body; omniscience is caused by it, if well understood.
15. In the swara are the Vedas and the shastras; in the swara the highest gandharva; in the swara are all the three worlds; the swara is the reflection of the parabrahma.
16. Without a knowledge of the breath (swara), the astrologer is a hose without its lord, a speaker without learning, a trunk without a head.
17. Whoever knows the analysis of the Nadis, and the Prana, the analysis of the tatwa, and the analysis of the conjunctive susumna gets salvation.
18. It is always auspicious in the seen or the unseen universe, when the power of breath is mastered; they, O Fair One, that the knowledge of the science of breath is somewhat auspicious.
19. The parts and the first accumulations of the universe were made by the swara, and the swara is visible as the great Power, the Creator, and the Destroyer.
20. A knowledge more secret than the science of Breath, wealth more useful than the science of Breath, a friend more true than the science of breath, was never seen or heard of.
All of existence is the perpetual oscillation of the current of the life wave. This is what the word "Aum" which was the original sound that began creation symbolizes. And therefore the science of breath which mimics the principles of the universal life force is the highest science, because that links to the universal forces and one becomes one with this universal energy. This science is the highest ideal of yoga and is called Pranyama - the control of life force. Ancient Indians understood the science of Pranayama to such an advanced degree that they developed a special science of medicine called Ayurveda to balance peoples vibrations with herbs, meditation, aromas, oils to deal with all kinds of diseases and problems. As well as other esoteric sciences like Astrology and Vaastu Shastra(Feng Shui)
The Vedic model of creation has not been explained by any single scientific theories, however combines and links many modern scientific theories on creation. All that is lacking from modern theories is the discovery of life force and consciousness science.
1. Superstring theory: Superstring theory postulates that all matter is simply the vibrations of quantum strings
Vedic theory postulates that all matter IS simply the vibrations of a life force.
2. Symmetry and Inflationary theory: Symmetry and Inflationary theory postulates that in the beginning of creation there was symmetry of the four fundamental forces and they were combined into one single unified force and existed as a singularity. At about 10^-43 Plank time, gravity broke, the first of the spontaneous symmetry breaks and then the other forces followed and the singularity inflated and exploded.
Vedic theory postulates that ether was the first gross element, that then the 2nd element Vayu(the forces of attraction and repulsion) which formed the primodial seed that contained all matter, energy and space(singularity) and then exploded into Tejas(electromagnetic energy) which later condensed to form Pritvhi and life formed after Apas(fluid)
3. Quantum Vacuum theory: Quantum vacuum theory states that the universe was in a constant state of flux of virtual particles and then due to unknown effects manifested into a singularity.
Vedic theory postulates that the first elements that were created were the subtle ethers and they then manifested as the primodial seed.
Also note that the the shape of the universe is described as spherical. Now, this either means it literally as a sphere like a planet. However, this would contradict the Vedic theory of an infinite multiverse. The theory would only work if it was describing hyperspace:
Hyperspace and the multidimensional universe
The Vedas state the universe is infinite and full of infinite universes. Yet also states that the universe is spherical and was created in finite time. It would be therefore impossiblle for the universe to be full of infinite universes, unless, they co-existed within a superverse of multiuniverses, a multidimensional universe.
Multidimensionality in Vedic texts is described in the Srimad Bhagvatam, Brahma Samhita and Bhagvad Gita. As follows:
I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in Himself, the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane. [SBS 5.32].
He is an undifferentiated entity as there is no distinction between the potency and the possessor thereof. In His work of creation of millions of worlds, His potency remains inseparable. All the universes exist in Him and He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms that are scattered throughout the universe, at one and the same time. Such is the primeval Lord whom I adore [SBS 5.35].
Now, the above may not necessarily imply multi-dimensionality. It could also mean that Krishna is the life force and he is omnipresent. However, we will see that it does actually mean multiple dimensions. The dimensions we see are limited to our sensory or perceptive abilities. If we were 2D beings(i.e. cartoons) and saw a 3D object such as a sphere, all we would be able to see is a circle. In the same way we the spheres that we see in our 3D universe would be seen differently by 4D beings. This is illustrated in the Bhagvad Gita where Krishna gives Arjuna divine vision to perceive dimensions of the universe he never knew existed and to see his real divine form:
Before revealing this form to Arjuna, Krishna said,
O best of the Bharatas, see here the different manifestations of Adityas, Vasus, Rudras, Asvini-kumaras and all the other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things which no one has ever seen or heard of before.
O Arjuna, whatever you want to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything--moving and nonmoving--is here completely, in one place [BG 11.6-7].
Another such instance of Krishna revealing dimensions to people was to his foster mother, Yoshuda as a child. When she saw him eating mud, she scolded him and told him to open his mouth. When he did, she saw within his mouth the entire universe and she fainted.
Krishna represents god himself and he has access to every location and can reveal any location in the universe from any point, because he is the universe. This would imply that if the highest perception can see the universe and access every universe then beings of varying perception would would have access to lesser and lesser world. A 10D being would be able to see more of the universe than a 3D being would.
This is what the Srimad Bhagvatam says. There are 7 Lokhs or words, the lunar mansions, the stars, the planets, the subterrarian planets, the subtle realms, the spiritual worlds and all are inhabitated by life forms and at the highest dimensions; Mother Earth, the Sun and Moon are actually conscious beings and that is why they are worshipped by this very advanced vedic culture.
In the next post we will discuss some archeological evidence of traces of this civilization.
[edit on 29-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]
To discuss particle physics in ancient texts thousands of years ago. Is certainly not something one would expect in discussing a 7000+ year old culture. How many religious texts are there that discuss particle physics? None. Zilch. Nada. However, in the Indian texts, it is described very elaborately, even beyond sub-atomic particles to superstring theory. A lot of what will be discussed is beyond modern science.
Summary of the Vedic universe
1. There are infinite dimensions and they interpeneterate
2. The material universe is comprised of 5 main elements(mahabhuttas); tejas(fire) earth(pritvhi), vayu(wind), apas(fluid) and (ether) They are all comprised of atoms, and the atoms of sub-atomic particles. However, only fire, earth, wind and fluid are physical and can be divided. The ether is the spiritual/subtle element, and is comprised of 5 ether elements of fire, earth, wind and fluid and each comprised of subtle atoms.
4. There is an attractive and repulsive force in all atoms; force is wind.
5. All matter is nothing more than a vibration and different vibrations form different matter.
6. The universe is holographic
7. Time is an endless cycle of creation and destruction; the universe is forever oscillating
8. The universe is conscious and planets and suns are higher life forms
9. All living beings have a soul and the soul fuses with with the atomic body
10. The science of meditation is the highest science
The Material universe
The Ancient Indians stated the entire macrocosm of the universe is comprised of the micocosms of finer particles. They measured all events and phenomena, from the orbits of planets to the fluctuation of sub-atomic particles as happening in time and time itself was measured according to the suns movement relative to the atom. This was represented by a very advanced numerical system that ranges from 10^-8 to 10^421(Buddha used it) and each power was given a name. This was used some 7000+ years ago!
Here are the Sanskrit words for the numbers up to 10^53
ekam =1
dashakam =10
shatam =100 (10 to the power of 10)
sahasram =1000 (10 power of 3)
dashasahasram =10000 (10 power of 4)
lakshaha =100000 (10 power of 5)
dashalakshaha =1000000 (10 power of 6)
kotihi =10000000 (10 power of 7)
ayutam =1000000000 (10 power of 9)
niyutam = (10 power of 11)
kankaram = (10 power of 13)
vivaram = (10 power of 15)
paraardhaha = (10 power of 17)
nivahaaha = (10 power of 19)
utsangaha = (10 power of 21)
bahulam = (10 power of 23)
naagbaalaha = (10 power of 25)
titilambam = (10 power of 27)
vyavasthaana
pragnaptihi = (10 power of 29)
hetuheelam = (10 power of 31)
karahuhu = (10 power of 33)
hetvindreeyam = (10 power of 35)
samaapta lambhaha = (10 power of 37)
gananaagatihi) = (10 power of 39)
niravadyam = (10 power of 41)
mudraabaalam = (10 power of 43)
sarvabaalam = (10 power of 45)
vishamagnagatihi = (10 power of 47)
sarvagnaha = (10 power of 49)
vibhutangamaa = (10 power of 51)
tallaakshanam = (10 power of 53)
In Ancient India, numbers were not abstract concepts, though used to measure phenomena. One wonders, what were they measuring at 10^53-421! In particular, ancient Vedic Indians were very precise about time and had divided into very fine divisions, according to atoms. In the Srimad Bhagvatam, chaper 11, it is stated these divisions of time are calculated by the time it takes the sun across the smallest and largest dimensions of matter. Those divisions are:
Paramanu = Primodial atom
2 Paramanu = Anu
6 Anu = Trasarenu
3 Trasarenus = Truti
100 Truti = Vedha
3 Veda = Lava
3 Lava = Nimesha
3 Nimesha = Ksana
5 Ksana = Kashta
15 Kashthas = Laghu
15 Laghu = Nadika
2 Nadika = Muhuruta
A Muhutra is defined as 48 min. Therefore a paramanu would be 1.3*10^-6. There were even smaller divisions of time as noted
by a British physicist on BBC of 3*10^-8, who said it was surprisingly close to the life span of a certain fermion.
The time scale continues:
Divasa = 24 hours
Saptaha = 7 days
Masa = 4 weeks
Varsa = 12 months
Satabda = 100 years
Sahasrabda = 10 centuries
Deva yuga = 12,000 deva years or 4.32 million human years
Manvantra(days and nights) = 71 Deva Yugas or 306.72 million years or 613.44 million years(full)
7 Manvantra = 4.3 billion years; the age of the Earth today
1 Kapa(14 Mantravantra) 8.64 billion years; the life span of Earta
100 years of Brahma = 311 trillion years; the life span of our universe
We are currently in the 7th Mantravantra, meaning the age of our Earth according to the Hindu calender was 4.3 billion years old when the human civilization began. In 5AD Indian mathematican calculated the age of the Earth as 4.35 billion years old. The age of the Earth as estimated by scientists today with carbon dating is 4.3-4.5 billion years old. There is absolutely no way that the age of Earth can be calculated without modern scanning(or radiological) equipment and it most definitely not a coincidence as the Hindu time scale is is very precise and has a very scientific structure.
To give you an idea of what an astonishing feat this is, we'll look at other attempts at calculating or estimating the age of the Earth:
Artistotle: Aristotle believed the Earth was eternal
The Han Chinese: The Earth existed in cycle of 23 million years
Comte du Buffon(1799) : He measured the rate of cooling of a globe of an Earth he created. He esimated 75,000 years old.
John Phillips: He calculated the Earth was about 96 million years old from rock analysis
William Thompson(1862): He published calculations that the Earth was 20 million to 400 million years old. His calculations were based
on the assumption of how long it would have taken for the Earth to cool from molten state to it's current temperature.
The German physicist Hermann von Helmholtz and the American astronomer Simon Newcomb: : They calculated the age of the Earth as 100 million years based on the sun.
Bertram and Rutherford: Using early carbon dating equipments, they were able to date many rocks, the oldest rock they dates was 1.6 billion years old. This lead them to believe the Earth was a few billion years old.
Dick Teresi author and coauthor of several books about science and technology, including The God Paticle. He is cofounder of Omni magazine and has written for Discover, The New York Times Magazine, and The Atlantic Monthly. He says
"Indian cosmologists, the first to estimate the age of the earth at more than 4 billion years. They came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories. India developed very early, enduring atomist theories of matter. Possibly Greek atomistic thought was influenced by India, via the Persian civilization."
So we have an highly accurate age for the Earth and the speed of light. Both of which require modern technology, radiological/scanning and lasers, respectively. At some point we have to give in to the fact that we are not the first technological civilization. The evidence is insurmountable.
Atomic Theory
There are five main elements:
Pritvhi: Atomic elements
Vayu: The forces of attraction and repulsion
Tejas: Electromagnetic energy and photons
Apas: The fluid
Akasha: The vacuum energy
Matter in it's original and unadulerated form is called Prakriti(the female principle) and It's male principle, or the spirit, is called Purush or Prana(the all pervading life force) It comes into existence when the great breath of the parabrahman or the Brahman(creator) acts upon it. This principle is called the Svara and means the current of the life wave. The non-physical universe then divided into 5 states of ether that form the subtle and objective universe, each with their distinct vibration and function.
The first element that forms is the ether, the first and highest level of vibration and then the rest of the ethers form. Then the great breath acts upon these 5 types of ethers, and from them manifest the physical and gross elements which form space-time. The first element of the 3D universe is the ether and then forms the 2nd element, Vayu, the forces of attraction and repulsion, which then shape the the Brahmand(universe and expanding egg) into a primodial sphere or cosmic seed called Hiranya Garbha(seed of all energy) in which the sum of Prakriti in the universe is contained from which bursts in an explosion(Bindu Vishput) the third element of Tejas; electromagnetic energy. The electromagnetic energy expands and forms the fourth element of Pritvhi(atomic matter) and from Pritvhi finally forms the 5th element Apas(fluid) and this completes creation.
All matter in the universe is formed of the five Tattvas, fives modes of vibration of the life force to the finest atom and obey it's physical laws. All of Prana is made up of innumerable points of various classes depending on their state of vibrations of the Tattvas. Every point of Prana is a microcosm of the universe and is comprised of all of the 5 Maha Tatavas in varying proportions and these form the gross atoms - the atomic elements or the tattvas.
The understanding of atomic elements and their practical use was very advanced to the level of the technology of transmutation of one element to another. In the Srimad Bhagvatam an analogy is given by Srila Sanatana Gosvami, in which the transformation of a lowborn man into a brahmin is compared to the transformation of bell metal into gold by an alchemical process. Bell metal is an ancient alloy that is comprised of two metals, copper and tin. The atomic numbers of copper and tin are 29 and 50 respectively, combined they give the atomic number of 79, which IS the element Gold.
Is it a coincidence? Hardly, it specifies explicitly that it is formed from an alchemical process using bells metal.
Quotations from the Bhagvad Gita, Vedas Unpanishads discussing the above
Those who have taken refuge in this knowledge attain unity with Me, and are neither born at the time of creation nor afflicted at the time of dissolution. (14.02)
O Arjuna, My Prakriti (or the material nature) is the womb wherein I place the seed (of spirit or Purusha) from which all beings are born. (See also 9.10) (14.03)
Whatever forms are produced in all different wombs, O Arjuna, the great Prakriti is their (body-giving) mother, and the Purusha is the (seed or life-giving) father. (14.04)
Sattva or goodness, Rajas or activity, and Tamas or inertia; these three Gunas (or states) of mind (or Prakriti) bind the imperishable soul to the body, O Arjuna. (14.05)
My dear Lord, the original purusha-avatara, Maha-Vishnu, acquires His creative potency from You. Thus with infallible energy He impregnates material nature, producing the mahat-tattva. Then the mahat-tattva, the amalgamated material energy, endowed with the potency of the Lord, produces from itself the primeval golden egg of the universe, which is covered by various layers of material elements
The state of each universe at the beginning is described in Rig Veda (10-121-1) and Atharva Veda (4-2-7) by the words 'Hiranya Garbha', literally meaning 'the seed or womb of all energy'. The Hindu scriptures offer many ideas about creation, but they all agree that each universe is ultimately dissolved and transformed into another one. This transformation point is the 'Big Bang' (known as Bindu Visphot) which happens periodically and thus sets the process of endless rhythmic cycles of expansions and contractions ('Big Crunch') of the universe. In this process, time is also initiated as part of that continuum.
The universe turns into minute (subtle) form at the time of dissolution and takes gross form at the time of creation.(Gita, 9-7)
There was a universe before this one and there will be a, universe after this one. (Rig veda, 10-190-3)
The Shiva Purna:
1. The goddess said: My Lord Mahadeva, the god of gods, be kind to me, and tell me the wisdom that comprehends everything.
2. How did the universe come out? How does it go on? How does it disappear? Tell me, O Lord, the philosophy of the universe.
3. Said the god: The universe came out of tatwa or the tatwas; it goes on by the instrumentality of the tatwas; it disappears in the tatwas; by the tatwas is known the nature of the universe.
4. Said the goddess: The Knowers of the tatwas have ascertained the tatwa to be the highest root; what, O God, is the nature of the tatwas? Throw light upon the tatwas.
5. Said the god: Unmanifested, formless, one giver of light is the great Power; from that appeared the soniferous ether (akasa); from that had birth the tangiferous ether.
6. From the tangiferous ether, the luminiferous ether, and from this the gustiferous ether; from thence was the birth of the odiferous ether. These are the five ethers and they have five-fold extension.
7. Of these the universe came out; by these it goes on; into these it disappears; even among these it shows itself again
8. The body is made of the five tatwas; the five tatwas, O Fair One, exist therein in the subtle form; they are known by the learned who devote themselves to the tatwas.
9. On this account shall I speak of the rise of breath in the body; by knowing the nature of inspiration and expiration comes into being the knowledge of the three times.
10. This science of the rise of breath, the hidden of the hidden, the shower of the true Good, is a pearl on the head of the wise.
11. This knowledge is the subtle of the subtle; it is easily understood; it causes the belief of truth; it excites wonder in the world of unbelievers; it is the support among unskeptical people.
12. The science of the rise of breath is to be given to the calm, the pure, the virtuous, the firm and the grateful, single-minded devote of the guru.
13. It is not to be given to the vicious, the impure, the angry, the untruthful, the adulterer, and him who has wasted his substance.
14. Hear, thou goddess, the wisdom which is found in the body; omniscience is caused by it, if well understood.
15. In the swara are the Vedas and the shastras; in the swara the highest gandharva; in the swara are all the three worlds; the swara is the reflection of the parabrahma.
16. Without a knowledge of the breath (swara), the astrologer is a hose without its lord, a speaker without learning, a trunk without a head.
17. Whoever knows the analysis of the Nadis, and the Prana, the analysis of the tatwa, and the analysis of the conjunctive susumna gets salvation.
18. It is always auspicious in the seen or the unseen universe, when the power of breath is mastered; they, O Fair One, that the knowledge of the science of breath is somewhat auspicious.
19. The parts and the first accumulations of the universe were made by the swara, and the swara is visible as the great Power, the Creator, and the Destroyer.
20. A knowledge more secret than the science of Breath, wealth more useful than the science of Breath, a friend more true than the science of breath, was never seen or heard of.
All of existence is the perpetual oscillation of the current of the life wave. This is what the word "Aum" which was the original sound that began creation symbolizes. And therefore the science of breath which mimics the principles of the universal life force is the highest science, because that links to the universal forces and one becomes one with this universal energy. This science is the highest ideal of yoga and is called Pranyama - the control of life force. Ancient Indians understood the science of Pranayama to such an advanced degree that they developed a special science of medicine called Ayurveda to balance peoples vibrations with herbs, meditation, aromas, oils to deal with all kinds of diseases and problems. As well as other esoteric sciences like Astrology and Vaastu Shastra(Feng Shui)
The Vedic model of creation has not been explained by any single scientific theories, however combines and links many modern scientific theories on creation. All that is lacking from modern theories is the discovery of life force and consciousness science.
1. Superstring theory: Superstring theory postulates that all matter is simply the vibrations of quantum strings
Vedic theory postulates that all matter IS simply the vibrations of a life force.
2. Symmetry and Inflationary theory: Symmetry and Inflationary theory postulates that in the beginning of creation there was symmetry of the four fundamental forces and they were combined into one single unified force and existed as a singularity. At about 10^-43 Plank time, gravity broke, the first of the spontaneous symmetry breaks and then the other forces followed and the singularity inflated and exploded.
Vedic theory postulates that ether was the first gross element, that then the 2nd element Vayu(the forces of attraction and repulsion) which formed the primodial seed that contained all matter, energy and space(singularity) and then exploded into Tejas(electromagnetic energy) which later condensed to form Pritvhi and life formed after Apas(fluid)
3. Quantum Vacuum theory: Quantum vacuum theory states that the universe was in a constant state of flux of virtual particles and then due to unknown effects manifested into a singularity.
Vedic theory postulates that the first elements that were created were the subtle ethers and they then manifested as the primodial seed.
Also note that the the shape of the universe is described as spherical. Now, this either means it literally as a sphere like a planet. However, this would contradict the Vedic theory of an infinite multiverse. The theory would only work if it was describing hyperspace:
Hyperspace and the multidimensional universe
The Vedas state the universe is infinite and full of infinite universes. Yet also states that the universe is spherical and was created in finite time. It would be therefore impossiblle for the universe to be full of infinite universes, unless, they co-existed within a superverse of multiuniverses, a multidimensional universe.
Multidimensionality in Vedic texts is described in the Srimad Bhagvatam, Brahma Samhita and Bhagvad Gita. As follows:
I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in Himself, the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane. [SBS 5.32].
He is an undifferentiated entity as there is no distinction between the potency and the possessor thereof. In His work of creation of millions of worlds, His potency remains inseparable. All the universes exist in Him and He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms that are scattered throughout the universe, at one and the same time. Such is the primeval Lord whom I adore [SBS 5.35].
Now, the above may not necessarily imply multi-dimensionality. It could also mean that Krishna is the life force and he is omnipresent. However, we will see that it does actually mean multiple dimensions. The dimensions we see are limited to our sensory or perceptive abilities. If we were 2D beings(i.e. cartoons) and saw a 3D object such as a sphere, all we would be able to see is a circle. In the same way we the spheres that we see in our 3D universe would be seen differently by 4D beings. This is illustrated in the Bhagvad Gita where Krishna gives Arjuna divine vision to perceive dimensions of the universe he never knew existed and to see his real divine form:
Before revealing this form to Arjuna, Krishna said,
O best of the Bharatas, see here the different manifestations of Adityas, Vasus, Rudras, Asvini-kumaras and all the other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things which no one has ever seen or heard of before.
O Arjuna, whatever you want to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything--moving and nonmoving--is here completely, in one place [BG 11.6-7].
Another such instance of Krishna revealing dimensions to people was to his foster mother, Yoshuda as a child. When she saw him eating mud, she scolded him and told him to open his mouth. When he did, she saw within his mouth the entire universe and she fainted.
Krishna represents god himself and he has access to every location and can reveal any location in the universe from any point, because he is the universe. This would imply that if the highest perception can see the universe and access every universe then beings of varying perception would would have access to lesser and lesser world. A 10D being would be able to see more of the universe than a 3D being would.
This is what the Srimad Bhagvatam says. There are 7 Lokhs or words, the lunar mansions, the stars, the planets, the subterrarian planets, the subtle realms, the spiritual worlds and all are inhabitated by life forms and at the highest dimensions; Mother Earth, the Sun and Moon are actually conscious beings and that is why they are worshipped by this very advanced vedic culture.
In the next post we will discuss some archeological evidence of traces of this civilization.
[edit on 29-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]
Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
What difference does it make though? If there is or is not proof of it is kind of interesting, but what is the big deal?
If all these groups are lying, what is their motive?
It is all just sharing ideas, and I try not to take it too seriously.
Of course, the sight of a machine gun definitely makes me feel I should always be alert.
Don't mind OFS Black Guard. He is renowned on this forum for being the extreme skeptic(without a clue) If he wasn't saying the above, then there would have been something wrong. At one point he proclaimed a UFO in a newspaper article on the 1942 air raid in Los angeles as a "obvious photoshop hoax" because after distorting the original photograph with an array of filters - it seemed unreal, and he knew better because he was a photoshop expert
In any case, whether this proof convinces someone or not, it's a very interesting and informative topic, so replies like OFS asking certain members not to respond is just immature and insensitive. However, I don't expect more from him anyway. Perhaps he would like to show me how the entire Indian scientific, government, archeological and scholary community are lying. As well as the professor of Lousiana state university, a lone NASA scientists and other Sanskrit Scholars.
It's interesting how people are willing to accept western history as the gospel truth. Yet, seem to have double standards with Indian history, which fortunately has enough records for us to relearn it's history. It's just a matter of educating ourselves about it. It just seems some people are simply too bigoted to want to care. Well, that's fine with me, because if the experts care, what does it matter if some people who have made it a hobby out of doubting everything that does not fit their predispositions, don't.
As long as some people are appreciating my hard work in researching and compiling and documenting this evidence. It's all fine
[edit on 29-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]
Originally posted by Daedalus3
wow..what a thread..i just stumbled upon it now..
The reason why India was invaded so many times may not directly point to the "weakness" of the Indian culture, it may indicate a sense of tolerance as opposed to barbaric uprisings..Maybe lives were of more value than 'territory' and 'status'..a clause we should pay much more heed to today..
The point about accepting a foreigners view on India, I'm confused..you mean the 'britishers propounded the aryan theory' bit or the fact that 'an ancient advanced indian civ existed' bit ..
And who are these "experts" who have "made up their minds"..and what is their conclusion...?
Also another question..How many Indians on this forum and how many of those stay in India...??
Nobody sem sto have answered my questions??
shy indians onboard ATS??
Somebody was talking about nukes leaving a lot of traces..not that I'm taking sides..I am actually here to do a census on the indian pop on ATS
But what about atmospherically detonated nukes(neutron bombs)..?
They wouldn't any traces except background radiation right??..
Daedulus, I apologise for not answering your questions before, I guess your post got lost somewhere in the thread. Here is a list of the experts and research centers on the Vyaamanika Shastra alone:
Dr. K. Ramchand, Director, The Centre for Airborne Studies.
Dr. T.N. Prakash, panel coordinator AR & DB.
Wg.Cdr. A.E. Patrawalla, Honorary Secretary, AeSI, Bangalore.
Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, Eminent Scholar on Indian Philosophy, Bangalore.
Dr. V. Prabhanjanacharya, Professor of Sanskrit and Illustrious scholar on Indian Philosophy.
Dr. P. Ramachandra Rao, Director, NML, Jamshedpur.
Air Cmde. P.S. Subramanian. V.M, Bangalore.
Dr. B.G.Siddarth, Director Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.
Dr. Maheshwar Sharon, Dept. of Chemistry, IIT, Bombay.
Dr. V.K. Didolkar, Sri. Deepak Deshpande, Sri. M.K. Kawadkar.
Dr. R. Ganesh, Eminent Scholar on Indian Philosophy, Bangalore.
Dr. K.H. Krishna Murthy, Former Professor of Ayurvedic Medicine, Pondichery Medical College, Bangalore.
GP. CAPT. M. Matheswaran VM. Indian Air Force.
Wg. Cdr. S.S. Yegnaswami, Bangalore
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., Bangalore.
Sri. N.G. Sheth, Bombay.
Oriental Research Libraries, Pune and Baroda.
Sri. Shraddhalu Ranade, Aurabindo Ashram, Pondichery.
Veda-vignana Parishat, Bangalore.
Sri. S. Krishna Murthy, Director, Public Relation, ISRO, Bangalore.
Dr. Upendra Shenoi, Bangalore.
Indian Institute of World Culture, Bangalore.
National Metallurgical Laboratory, Jamshedpur
Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.
Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay.
Indian National Science Academy, INSA
Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote
Other references:
Dr Talpede
Dr. V. Raghavan, Indian Institute of Culture 1956.
Swami Dayanada
Sir Sayajirao Gaekwad, the Maharaja of Baroda and Justice Govind Ranade and was reported in “The Kesari” a leading Marathi daily newspaper. They were witnesses to the first flight in Bombay by Dr Talpede Ion Engine.
Foreign researchers:
Italian scientist Dr. Roberto Pinotti
Dr. Richard L.Thompson
Dr. Subhash C Kak, Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Louisiana State University
I am not sure if you aware, but the Indian IITS(institutes of techology) are the most pretigious in Asia and one of the best in the world. They are the equivalent of MITs of US. All of the researchers above, have excellent credentials and further it is a research fully endorsed by the highest departments of government and military technology.
Really, all this research into the ancient Sanskrit documents on aeronautics of science is the Indian equivalent of MIT, NASA, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge universities and the US defence research labs working on something.
And the witnesses who say the Taplede Ion's engine flight, are the equivalent of the US president, supreme court justice and new york times testifying.
This is all real my friend. I know it is very hard to suddenly just forget about everything you learnt about history in an instance, due to what some guy on the internet has written. But, can you really deny al ofl this proof? It's insurmountable.
Further, while the VS itself is amazing by itself, there is even evidence in known Vedas, Bhagvad Gita, Upanishads, Purans and Sutras written in India some 2600 years ago.
There is even accepted history of brain surgery and plastic surgery in Ancient India. There is accepted history that the modern decimal system originated in ancient India. There is accepted history that ancient Indians had a mathematical system on binary numbers and how to represent text as binay.
There is proof of advanced metallurgical technology from the rust-proof Iran pillar of Delhi and the evidence of bronze, iron, tin, zink and even alloy manufacturing. I will cover this later.
The Sanskrit language itself is not lying, it is the mother language of all the Indo-European languages, something Hitler recognized when he declared Aryans as the master race.
It seems obvious now that we have all descended from the same master race, the Aryans of the Vedic times, and this ties all the loose ends of how so many religions have similar stories and "myths"(Christ, flood etc) and why nearly every Indo-European language can be traced to Sanskrit. Not only that but pre-Mohammed Arabia was also part of the vedic culture. I will prove this in my next writing.
This only makes me think, that "Bharat" described in the texts was perhaps more of a global empire, encompassing all the world, rather than just based in the Indian subcontinent.
[edit on 30-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]
Dr. K. Ramchand, Director, The Centre for Airborne Studies.
Dr. T.N. Prakash, panel coordinator AR & DB.
Wg.Cdr. A.E. Patrawalla, Honorary Secretary, AeSI, Bangalore.
Sri. Bannanje Govindacharya, Eminent Scholar on Indian Philosophy, Bangalore.
Dr. V. Prabhanjanacharya, Professor of Sanskrit and Illustrious scholar on Indian Philosophy.
Dr. P. Ramachandra Rao, Director, NML, Jamshedpur.
Air Cmde. P.S. Subramanian. V.M, Bangalore.
Dr. B.G.Siddarth, Director Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.
Dr. Maheshwar Sharon, Dept. of Chemistry, IIT, Bombay.
Dr. V.K. Didolkar, Sri. Deepak Deshpande, Sri. M.K. Kawadkar.
Dr. R. Ganesh, Eminent Scholar on Indian Philosophy, Bangalore.
Dr. K.H. Krishna Murthy, Former Professor of Ayurvedic Medicine, Pondichery Medical College, Bangalore.
GP. CAPT. M. Matheswaran VM. Indian Air Force.
Wg. Cdr. S.S. Yegnaswami, Bangalore
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., Bangalore.
Sri. N.G. Sheth, Bombay.
Oriental Research Libraries, Pune and Baroda.
Sri. Shraddhalu Ranade, Aurabindo Ashram, Pondichery.
Veda-vignana Parishat, Bangalore.
Sri. S. Krishna Murthy, Director, Public Relation, ISRO, Bangalore.
Dr. Upendra Shenoi, Bangalore.
Indian Institute of World Culture, Bangalore.
National Metallurgical Laboratory, Jamshedpur
Birla Science Centre, Hyderabad.
Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay.
Indian National Science Academy, INSA
Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote
Other references:
Dr Talpede
Dr. V. Raghavan, Indian Institute of Culture 1956.
Swami Dayanada
Sir Sayajirao Gaekwad, the Maharaja of Baroda and Justice Govind Ranade and was reported in “The Kesari” a leading Marathi daily newspaper. They were witnesses to the first flight in Bombay by Dr Talpede Ion Engine.
Foreign researchers:
Italian scientist Dr. Roberto Pinotti
Dr. Richard L.Thompson
Dr. Subhash C Kak, Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Louisiana State University
I am not sure if you aware, but the Indian IITS(institutes of techology) are the most pretigious in Asia and one of the best in the world. They are the equivalent of MITs of US. All of the researchers above, have excellent credentials and further it is a research fully endorsed by the highest departments of government and military technology.
Really, all this research into the ancient Sanskrit documents on aeronautics of science is the Indian equivalent of MIT, NASA, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge universities and the US defence research labs working on something.
And the witnesses who say the Taplede Ion's engine flight, are the equivalent of the US president, supreme court justice and new york times testifying.
This is all real my friend. I know it is very hard to suddenly just forget about everything you learnt about history in an instance, due to what some guy on the internet has written. But, can you really deny al ofl this proof? It's insurmountable.
Further, while the VS itself is amazing by itself, there is even evidence in known Vedas, Bhagvad Gita, Upanishads, Purans and Sutras written in India some 2600 years ago.
There is even accepted history of brain surgery and plastic surgery in Ancient India. There is accepted history that the modern decimal system originated in ancient India. There is accepted history that ancient Indians had a mathematical system on binary numbers and how to represent text as binay.
There is proof of advanced metallurgical technology from the rust-proof Iran pillar of Delhi and the evidence of bronze, iron, tin, zink and even alloy manufacturing. I will cover this later.
The Sanskrit language itself is not lying, it is the mother language of all the Indo-European languages, something Hitler recognized when he declared Aryans as the master race.
It seems obvious now that we have all descended from the same master race, the Aryans of the Vedic times, and this ties all the loose ends of how so many religions have similar stories and "myths"(Christ, flood etc) and why nearly every Indo-European language can be traced to Sanskrit. Not only that but pre-Mohammed Arabia was also part of the vedic culture. I will prove this in my next writing.
This only makes me think, that "Bharat" described in the texts was perhaps more of a global empire, encompassing all the world, rather than just based in the Indian subcontinent.
[edit on 30-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]
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